QTH.COM Swap Chat

Probably 90% of all problems that I see posted here could be avoided by using PayPal. No I do not work for PayPal. Most people are what I call "cheap skates" that don't want to pay the extra for PayPal just to save a few bucks or have to list their financial information with PayPal. The way I view transactions is that if a seller don't want to use PayPal there is probably something wrong with the item or something the seller is not telling the buyer (or vice versa). I know that it is not a fix all but I'm telling you using PayPal is alot better than "Postal Money Order Only" any day of the week. This is just my own subjective opinion and as always worth just about 2 cents if even that.

The main issue I have with PP is they don't support issues you have with a transaction unless it was purchased on ebay !!



I have an issue and was told to bad, if it was bought on ebay I have recourse other wise pp does not care about who or what your issue is. They want their fees though..

Now I would have to say I didn't receive the item or it was fraud to have recourse
with those clowns !!

I WILL NEVER USE PAY PAL . MY DEALINGS WITH PAY PAL HAS NEVER BEEN GOOD. AS FOR YOU THINK SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE ITEM BEING SOLD BECAUSE THEY WANT A POSTAL MONEY ORDER IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!

I like to use Pay Pal and yes i know there guarantee on equipment is for E Bay users. What i like is the instant pay ment both ways and a proof of your transaction. I had a problem with the infamous radio mart and Pay Pal made dealing with him much faster as he quickly apologized and recinded his claim that i never shipped him a radio as of course i had UPS proof of delivery but the opportunity to quickly resolve the problem was made with proof using Pay Pal. And as for Postal M.O. their as i understand some really hard to detect by amateurs counterfeit ones around.And yes Pay Pal can be scammed also but i have always immediately gone to the pay pal site to check claims and report spoofs.Like Pay Pal warns never ever give your info to any one pretending there Pay Pal as they never ask for such info in E Mails.

I never said that Postal Money Orders are a joke! All I'm saying is that you send someone a Postal Money Order and just as soon as they get it cash it and what you receive is junk or nothing at all. What do you do then? At least PayPal gives you some type of recoursive action.
By the way typing in all caps is yelling and I see absolutely nothing to yell about here. You are free to do things your own way and have your own opinions.

Because I say "Postal Money Order Only" I'm selling something defective or not working! You think I'm cheating someone because I ask for that and not PayPal! Hear this "GO BACK TO E-BAY WHERE YOU BELONG."

Not for me , Personal check ALL THE WAY. I get the check , call the bank for funds verification , away she goes...Safest way for me....

Been burned TWICE with Paypal and dropped them quickly...It is Sooooo easy to get your checking information... Google it...

Once a personal check is deposited and cleared , there is NO turning back...

Bill

Whoa there Cheif, no one accused you of anything! Just because you pay with a Postal Money Order doen't make you a crook or dishonest or anything like that. Pay with any method you wish, I don't care. Also, hear this xxxxxx- I DON"T BUY ON E-BAY.

73's

KF4SNJ wrote:Whoa there Cheif, ...
...Also, hear this xxxxxxx- ...
73's

Classy, real classy.

I use PayPal. I use checks. I avoid postal money orders just because they are so darned inconvenient for me. Now I'm sure I will get a classy reply, too.

Geeze , get along "American " people , we are not in the middle east... You guys should be brothers not enimies... Appologize and Forgive.

KF4SNJ wrote:This is just my own subjective opinion and as always worth just about 2 cents if even that.

Yup! Not worth much........

I use PayPal, and PayPal sucks. I use a Visa card via PayPal. PayPal still wants my personal info....why? They still want my bank info......why?

They are scammers, that's why. I only use PayPal for my eBay purchases. I refuse to accept any PayPal payment due to the fact that my account is limited because I will not give them my bank info.

Many say, "I have a separate account for PayPal". Why, somebody please tell me, would this be a good idea?

At least with Visa, if I purchase something that is not as advertised, I can be made whole again with a quick phone call.

Let's say you sell a few ham items on ePay for a couple of thousand dollars. You receive the payment and ship out the items. The buyer receives the items, and a couple of weeks later, they put in a claim with PayPal saying the item "was not as advertised". In the meantime, you now have similar items for sale on ePay for about the same amount of money. ePay gives the money back immediately to the buyer (with ePay's new system, the seller is always wrong, and the buyer is always right).

ePay gets suspicious and puts a hold on your funds, which YOU gave them the right to do. Except that you transferred the money from PayPal and it went to your 'normal' bank account. So now your bank account is frozen, and you can't pay your mortgage, etc., until you clear it up.

A buyer can make such a claim, and they will receive their money back, and they still have the equipment they 'purchased'. The buyer can then disappear from the earth, and you have to wait until PayPal decides you were taken. It can and has happened.

PayPal and ePay are in business to make money, not to 'protect' anyone other than themselves. Why do you think you are forced to use PayPal on ePay? If you want to trade safely, use US postal money orders. It is a federal crime to use the US mail to conduct fraud, especially with a USPS money order. Believe me, it's happened to me and I was able to get my money back after about 4 months from someone who claimed they didn't receive the item I sold them. Sure you can send an item out with all the tracking numbers you want, but that doesn't prove the item you said you sent was received. I was only able to get my money back because I had an email from the buyer asking a question after they received the item.

If you have a separate bank account that is NOT tied into your usual bank account (make sure that is the case, since it's normally not), while PayPal can still freeze that account, at least you have your other account for your normal living expenses. Of course it's always possible that your PayPal account can be hacked, and that could trigger a freeze on your account.

Also, disclaimers such as "as-is no returns on electronic items" don't mean a thing to PayPal. Unfortunately, if you want to be safe, only buy from established commercial dealers, using your credit card. If you buy from someone you don't know, using a check, a USPS money order, or PayPal; then don't buy something for an amount of money that would hurt you financially if you lost the money.

kc0rey wrote:
Many say, "I have a separate account for PayPal". Why, somebody please tell me, would this be a good idea?

At least with Visa, if I purchase something that is not as advertised, I can be made whole again with a quick phone call.

I agree PayPal all the way for me it protects both parties as long as you avoid letting them use credit cards on PayPal. The other poster that stated you have to buy from ebay is completely wrong they cover all items no matter how they were purchased if they were payed for my PayPal. Also make sure the person you are dealing with has been verified, it will tell you by looking next to their name.

Here is how I use Paypal, and it works well. I have a Visa that I charge everything to through Paypal (not that awful Paypal credit card). If I have a problem with a purchase (which I have had over the years) I place the transaction into dispute with Visa, not Paypal. The charge is reversed, and I resolve things with the Visa dispute resolution people. I have yet to lose such a dispute, and have returned all of the defective purchases to their rightful owners. For sales, I have two bank accounts dedicated to Paypal transactions only. The first account is a checking account that Paypal has access to. The second is a savings account that they do not have access to. When I receive a payment, I sweep it immediately into the savings account. Paypal cannot back charge the savings account so the funds are safe. This arrangement has worked very well for over 4 years. If Paypal ever tries to change the rules making this structure unusable, I'll stop using Paypal.

KG0MN wrote:I agree PayPal all the way for me it protects both parties as long as you avoid letting them use credit cards on PayPal. The other poster that stated you have to buy from ebay is completely wrong they cover all items no matter how they were purchased if they were payed for my PayPal. Also make sure the person you are dealing with has been verified, it will tell you by looking next to their name.

It don't work that way.
I was verified and had lots of $100 and $1500 dollar sales without a hitch.
Then a Buyer striped my radio and filed the Not as Described complaint, and PAY PAL locked all my verification credit cards bank account and all. And kept it lockeed till I gave the rbteafor his money back. I would have upgraded his feed back but Pay PAL and ebay wouldn't let me. So I did the next best thing. I started selling local, pick up only, and cash in hand, and to hell with a bunch of people that has it in their terms that I accepted befor they let me trade that if i didn't like their actions I had to come to California to discuss it. To the Hell with that.

PAYPAL like XOOM is a payment facilitator. The smart way to use PAYPAL is NOT to transfer cash or use their credit card. Keep PAYPAL out of the loop. PAYAL doesn't like that you use you're own card and they try and discourage you from doing that but it is illegal for them to prevent you from the choice of your card.

Use your own credit card and get your address confirmed. If there is any problem with the transaction you don't need to deal with Paypal. Just call your credit card company and file the transaction report with them.

An immediate hold will be placed on the funds pending investigation. Of course proper documentation is required, invoices, email communications etc. Your funds will be returned regardless of PAYPAL

And the goods need to be returned first. Return them USPS, with return receipt, insurance and tracking. Again use the Post Office as the USPS has a Law Enforcement Agency and is accountable. You are out the shipping but that is better than being out the total. Don't forget that the seller will be out shipping too. That's just the cost of doing business on-line.

In the case of goods not being delivered. No problem, just send your credit card company the documentation that you filed a claim at the Post Office or or shippers office and your money will be refunded to you.

I rarely have transaction difficulties. I also don't rant when I do. Just point out the issues to the seller rationally and calmly avoiding inflammatory comments.

And usually all it takes is a phone call to your credit card company and filling out the form they send you.

Business transactions sometimes go south. Often they don't have too. Ranting and abusive and inflammatory language NEVER solved any problems. In fact that type of behavior is only good to point out a lack of credibility.

PayPal offers more protection for both the buyer and the seller. It also allows the buy option to access different types of funds such as bank account, credit cards, etc. I do get frustrated that many seller, even though they too get additional protection - plus get the money very quickly, pass on the fees to the buyer. At best it should be a split since the transaction will be safer for both parties.

I had an issue with a seller a few years back. Paid with Pay Pal, but radio didn't ship until 3 mos later, stripped of all extras, even the power cord. The guy had sold me a 736r with 6m,2m,and 440 modules. He stripped out the 6m and 440 modules and sold them, and after many calls to Pay Pal, E-Bay, his local Sheriffs department, and many messages on his voicemail, he shipped it to me. Never got any relief, still have the 736r w/2meters, and the seller is a ghost. Pay Pal and E-Bay dragged their feet, and wig-wagged and never made any real effort to catch this scumbag.
I only use USPS money orders when I buy or sell. Screw Pay Pal.

I sold a car to someone out of state who was having it picked up and took payment via Pay Pal, it was a HUGE mistake. My account was frozen for suspicious activity since I wasn't a business and a large sum of money was transferred to me and I couldn't get my money out to make a down payment on a new care. I eventually got the money back but I will NEVER accept payment through them again.

w4abx wrote:I had an issue with a seller a few years back. Paid with Pay Pal, but radio didn't ship until 3 mos later, stripped of all extras, even the power cord. The guy had sold me a 736r with 6m,2m,and 440 modules. He stripped out the 6m and 440 modules and sold them, and after many calls to Pay Pal, E-Bay, his local Sheriffs department, and many messages on his voicemail, he shipped it to me. Never got any relief, still have the 736r w/2meters, and the seller is a ghost. Pay Pal and E-Bay dragged their feet, and wig-wagged and never made any real effort to catch this scumbag.
I only use USPS money orders when I buy or sell. Screw Pay Pal.

Something wrong here :
Why in the WORLD would you wait THREE MONTHS ? Paypal does require claims to be filed in a reasonable time period for good reasons . I have had EXCELLENT results from each and every time that I filed a legitimate complaint .

The real funny part is , you fail to explain just what protection a money order would have afforded after 3 days , let alone three MONTHS of inaction on your part .

Paypal is the scammer's worst enemy , scammers whine about Paypal continually .

Money Orders are the scammer's gold standard . Money Orders are universally praised by scammers world wide .

Do a google or search for scammers too . You will find many instances where they were totally thwarted by Paypal !

I have found Paypal is generally far more trustworthy than the sellers who vehemently post negatives about Paypal There are many reasons scammers hate Paypal , for the same reasons felons hate video surveillance systems .
Ten years as a buyer and seller with Paypal and I now know that sellers who bash it are best avoided for the most part.

Check and Money Orders can be the Fool's legal tender and the scammers favorite payment methods .

Actually , the OP made some excellent points :

"Always use PayPal
by KF4SNJ » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:48 pm

Probably 90% of all problems that I see posted here could be avoided by using PayPal. No I do not work for PayPal. Most people are what I call "cheap skates" that don't want to pay the extra for PayPal just to save a few bucks or have to list their financial information with PayPal. The way I view transactions is that if a seller don't want to use PayPal there is probably something wrong with the item or something the seller is not telling the buyer (or vice versa). I know that it is not a fix all but I'm telling you using PayPal is alot better than "Postal Money Order Only" any day of the week. This is just my own subjective opinion and as always worth just about 2 cents if even that."

As part of a professional certification, this year I studied many of the laws and regulations relating to fraud.

1. Mail fraud occurs when the mail is used to transmit ANYTHING in connection with a fraudulent transaction. In other words, if you mail a fraudster your personal check, the deal involves "mail fraud".

2. I see NOTHING that indicates that use of a USPS money order automatically gives rise to "mail fraud". It appears that, if you hand somebody a Postal money order, it's ordinary fraud, not mail fraud.

3. Postal inspectors are NOT REQUIRED to investigate instances of mail fraud involving less than $300.00-

4. The study material did not say if exclusive use of the internet in a fraudulent transaction constitutes WIRE FRAUD.

N9LCD

Obviously mail fraud is but one of many forms of fraud . Fraud has many faces however Paypal offers significant protection from fauds and scams while giving the buyer a far better chance to recover funds that are so easily lost by check or money order .

W1JCW wrote:The main issue I have with PP is they don't support issues you have with a transaction unless it was purchased on ebay !!

That's not true, but you have to do it correctly.

When buying, you MUST have the SELLER issue you a PAYPAL MONEY REQUEST or a PAYPAL INVOICE.

If you just use Paypal's SEND MONEY function you have ABSOLUTELY NO PROTECTION however if you pay by RESPONDING to a MONEY REQUEST or INVOICE then you have "Paypal Buyer Protection" and believe me, it works.

I am an active seller, with my own web site, as well as eBay, eBid, BluJay, WebStore.com, and others. Been doing this since 2002, and have been a Paypal member since 2000.

I am not an employee of Paypal or eBay, and own stock in neither. Just a *very* satisfied Paypal customer who learned, long ago, that just about everyone with a "Paypal problem" had the problem because they broke a rule. Period.

--K2NE